Why should pre-death planning involve more than just a will? Tiffany McKenzie, Partner at Harrison & Held LLP, discusses why estate planning is a vital function of passing on generational wealth for minority groups and rectifying the racial wealth gap. She and Bernstein financial advisor Lonnell Williams share insightful ways to plan for harmony when you're gone.
00:00 - 00:28
Let's draft ways to provide guardrails and ways to avoid complications after you're gone, because grief is real, it causes a lot of complications. It adds to any issues that may have occurred before the death, exacerbates things. It's really just planning in a way that you can keep the harmony when you're gone or if you're incapacitated or any of the above. So there's ways and methods to plan for harmony.
00:34 - 01:30
This is Changing the Trajectory. And I'm your host, James Seth Thompson, Bernstein's Head of Diverse Market strategies. It's never too soon to be proactive about getting your affairs in order. My guest today will help me demystify certain notions surrounding the daunting topic and those things that often scares or paralyzes us into inaction. I'm first joined by Tiffany McKenzie. She is a partner at Harrison & Held in Atlanta. She specializes in estate planning and administration, family wealth transfer, tax planning, succession planning, and fiduciary litigation. She assists her clients with their pre-death estate planning and wealth preservation and has helped clients create charitable trusts and foundations. I'm also joined by a great friend and colleague, Lonnell Williams. He's an advisor in Atlanta office. Lonnell works with global, emerging and multicultural families and wealth creators. Thank you both for joining me today.
01:30 - 01:31
Good to be here.
01:31 - 01:33
Thank you for having us.
01:33 - 01:58
As customary with my episodes, I really like to dig in a little bit about the passion behind the work. You know, Tiffany, I'll start with you by way of introduction. I know you have a passion about closing the wealth gap. It may not seem like an obvious connection to how estate planning helps this mission. So why don't you take a moment to talk a little bit about your passion, your career trajectory and why these conversations are really important to you.
01:58 - 02:34
Awesome. Thank you so much, James, for having me today. As you said in the introduction, I do focus on estate planning. So that really includes estate administration, family wealth planning, family wealth transfers, and really how individuals can pass on the things that mean the most to them. So that's how do you pass on your family values? How do you pass on your actual family valuables, the things that you can touch? How do you pass on your businesses that may you work so hard over your lifetime to build up and to make successful? And really, how do you pass on your family legacy? So as part of that,
02:34 - 03:27
I'm really, really passionate about generational planning for minorities as a means by which to assist in closing the racial wealth gap. Lately, a lot has been going on, especially in regards to equality for minorities. But today I think the wealth gap between minority families and non-minority families remains really as large as it was decades ago. I think part of it is due to a lack of estate planning. In fact, recently I read that White Americans are about 10 times more likely to receive a family inheritance than Black Americans are. So you can see how estate planning could really be important and how it is really a function of passing on generational wealth and how estate planning could rectify the generational racial wealth gap. So that's really part of what it is that I do and really why I am passionate about what it is that I do.
03:28 - 03:44
Right. And obviously, we'll talk a little bit about demystifying some of the things that keep many of us away from this important process, what we think of our planning and legacy. But before we do that, I'm going to turn it over to Lonnell. Certainly, and James, thanks again for the opportunity.
03:44 - 04:11
I grew up in a city called Compton, California, with a lot of people are familiar with and I grew up actually the grandson of a pastor. So my life has been entrenched in faith work. I went to Princeton, came out of Princeton and actually became a leader of amazing church in New Jersey. I did that for over 10 years, drew the church from 30 people to tup to twelve thousand people down and left to transition with my wife to Atlanta and be an advisor.
04:11 - 04:59
So it gives me a really unique perspective, because I have married very individuals. I've been a part of the birthing process, maybe dedication process. And one of the scariest things that I have probably experienced in that role, as well as an adviser, is seeing people who have been able to accumulate X amount of dollars and wealth, who have tried to prepare their family in the best way possible, but thought for some reason that they were invisible and never put together a plan. And one of the worst things ever is seeing a family sit down and fight and have strife and tension about someone's legacy when those moments really should bring people together. But oftentimes it separates and divides. It's a horrible thing to see. And so part of my passion both.
04:59 - 05:24
globally and domestically, particularly with multicultural families, I think is really to empower, to educate, to really build some type of knowledge around the importance of the subject matter beyond stocks and bonds and mutual funds and alternatives. I really want them to understand, like my grandfather used to tell me all the time, you if fail to plan, you plan to fail. And that is why I want to empower people to really think strategically about what's next.
05:24 - 06:24
I love hearing your story and your pastor stories. So any time I have the opportunity to get you to talk about that, I think it's amazing. I think it's obvious where the passion lies in the work you do. You both know, and I've mentioned this a number of times in previous episodes, this platform of Changing the Trajectory, specifically when it comes to planning and legacy, has a lot to do with the equitable roles and positions we take when we are advising the people we advise. And part of that, whether it's emerging wealth creator, a multicultural family, a global family, is how do we show up and hold their hands to help identify the pitfalls and the unknowns. Being an organization that's been around for so long, our intellectual capital and the protocols and processes that we've gone through, we can point these things out. And in many instances we are dealing with people who are requiring this type of service, or wealth planning in general for the first time, because many times the people we deal with are first generation wealth creators.
06:24 - 06:56
So I want to start off and maybe Tiffany, I'll start with you, and, Lonnell, you can chime in. Along the lines of misconceptions, one of the big misconceptions when it comes to planning with some of the populations that we deal with is that planning is just the will. If there's a will, there's a way. And a lot of times, if that's your planning premise, you open yourself up to a lot of challenges going forward. So Tiffany, let's start talking about that a little bit. What is planning and why isn't it just a will?
06:56 - 07:27
Planning is much more than a will. I say to clients who come to me and they say, you know, I just need a will. And I say, yes, you do need a will, but you probably need a lot more than that. An estate plan really just goes much further than a well, it's really a comprehensive plan that includes documents that are effective not only when you die, but also during your lifetime. If you are an entrepreneur, maybe it's your operating agreements or your business agreements to ensure that your business is protected from liability protected to pass on if something happens to you.
07:27 - 08:03
It could also be documents like a healthcare directive or a power of attorney where you get to nominate an agent to handle your affairs if you're unable to. It could also include things like gifting and income tax planning to take advantage of many loopholes that exist in the Internal Revenue Code. It could include trusts and gifting to generations while you're still alive. There's just so much more to estate planning and getting your affairs in order, as you say, in addition to just a will. They say that about 50 percent of people have a will. But imagine just those 50 percent. Like what? What is it that they're still missing?
08:03 - 08:13
Yes, 50 percent of people do have a will, which means 50 percent of people don't have a will. But even if you do have a will, it doesn't mean you're 100 percent covered, correct?
08:13 - 08:30
Correct, exactly. Even if you're part of that 50 percent that has a will. So there's a lot of things that when we sit down with clients that we look at holistically. So what other documents may you need to protect yourself and your family other than or in addition to it?
08:30 - 08:51
Well, yeah. Tiffany would you also say the significance lies also in keeping those documents up to date, because so many people will do it and set it and forget it. And life has changed, they got more children, maybe there's a divorce, maybe they sold the business. And when you fail to update the documents, it can create a world full of trouble some years down the road.
08:51 - 09:20
Exactly. And what we see most often, especially when we're updating documents, is the fiduciary. So the people that you have named to be in charge of your affairs, those often change. I mean, just think about who you might not be friends with anymore that you were friends with five years ago or those family members that you thought you were close to. But they haven't checked on you while you were sick. You may have documents in place, but it's very, very important to pull them out, dust them off. Let's look at them. Let's reassess and make sure they're still up to date.
09:21 - 09:33
The three of us are fortunate. I think Lonnell and I both share clients with you, Tiffany. So I want to play just a little game real quick. So Lonnell, I'm going to say a word. I want you to react to it. All right. The word is probate.
09:33 - 10:07
It scares the world out of me. It's something that you don't want to be involved in. Unfortunately a lot of people have to struggle with it. It is the involvement of judges and lawyers and court proceedings for those who really haven't necessarily followed all the way through, beyond just a will or possibly no will whatsoever, then having the courts have to decide and determine where your assets might be divvied up. It's a very scary process that you don't want to be involved in, and that's the significance of having documents updated and prepared upon death.
10:07 - 10:46
I don't know if it's because I'm a lawyer and I deal with this, why it's not a scary word for me. But I will tell you, and I've told clients that probate doesn't have to be scary. Like Lonnell said, if you've got your documents in order, it could be a very easy process. Could take two weeks possibly just to get your orders from the judge. But if you don't have your documents in place, yes, it's scary and it's costly and it's time consuming and it's the last thing you want to do when you're dealing with the loss of a family member. But, yeah, it's really important that you do everything you can to plan to make sure that probate is not a scary word.
10:47 - 11:24
Lonnell, as an organization, we really believe in family engagement. One of the things you mentioned you want to do and something you feel inspired to do because how you empower your clients and families is through education. So when we're thinking about the complexities about managing money and creating legacy for families, where you're not just dealing with one person, you're dealing with a number and maybe even a certain number of generations. Can you talk a little bit about how family engagement in those conversations and education factors into this process of planning and legacy building?
11:24 - 11:46
Certainly, I think for me, every single client that I have, it is almost mandatory to go through our family engagement process, and family engagement for those who are unaware is a part of the Bernstein experience for all clients. It is a portion of our Wealth Strategy Group that is solely dedicated to helping clients really prioritize what matters to them the most.
11:47 - 12:12
I like to describe it as the softer side of the conversation. I tell people all the time, just because you have a big bed doesn't mean you get a lot of sleep in it. Just because you have a big home doesn't necessarily mean that you're not the only one in it. And that wealth, although it can create is a major benefit to your lifestyle, it can also create a lot of divisions within families. And so the family engagement team, they really help us identify for our clients what matters to them the most.
12:12 - 12:55
And so when I say that, I mean things like prioritizing values. Because my value as a husband and a father of four, ironically, might be very different from my wife's values, right? We both have degrees and we have all these children. But at the same time, for her impact might be more important than for me, maybe creating some type of philanthropic interest in the faith based community. Right. And so it helps us prioritize. And once we prioritize our value, we then can educate not only ourselves as to what that looks like practically in the sense of how we divvy up those assets, but also internally within our family. So we're talking about sending our children down and laying out the mission and the vision of our family to my family.
12:55 - 13:45
Thinking about if daddy passes away prematurely. You know exactly where things are, you know exactly what the passion of mine. You know that I wanted you to create this foundation, you know that I want you to give a certain amount to the church because we want to build a legacy there. But it's also a part of empowering our children to understand the markets. Right, because it's not just documentation and trust and things of that nature, understand, because one day they're going to be empowered to have all the wealth that we generated and created. And we don't want them to be off the river without a paddle. And so there's a lot that's involved in it. And it's for everyone from business owners to multicultural families to global family. But it is an amazing added value the Bernstein brings. And I should say that it is part of the relationship. It is something that we offer to every single person that's out there in the family world.
13:45 - 14:02
The amazing part about that process I refer to as equitable discovery, right?? I mean, it's a process by which we have to recognize that everyone has a different starting point and all families are different. They look different. They act different. They all have different priorities.
14:02 - 14:34
Yeah. I also like to add when creating the harmony and talking to your family about your values, I've realized over the years it's so interesting to see what's important to people, wealth and money being a lot, and it's great. And it's a great starting point as Lonnell said, and it's a great opportunity to have. But it's interesting. Over the years, I've also seen how important tangibles are to people. So the things you can touch, like Grandma's antique rings or grandpa's guns. How important those things are to some people. It's very interesting.
14:34 - 15:21
And I had a case probably four or five years into my practice and we had an estate we were dealing with, there was a lot of wealth. So there was money and stocks and bonds. But they ended up hiring us to fight over mother's cookie jar. And this was not an Hermes cookie jar or a super fancy antique. It was a regular cookie jar that you get from the grocery store with cookies in it. By the end of it, they've delivered the cookie jar to my office and I was so nervous, drop it or lose it or something. But by the end of it, when we had transferred over the cookie jar to its rightful owner, quote unquote, they had spent probably 60 grand in legal fees over a cookie jar.
15:21 - 16:12
And clearly, this is not about the cookie jar. This is about family relationships. And, you know, some people think that it's unfair that you've got something rather than another person. So it's just so important to talk about this with your family. And I tell clients all the time, even just over Christmas or over your holiday, just ask your family members, is there anything in here that you would want and maybe just take a little sticky note and put it on the bottom of the cookie jar or of the item and say, you know, this will be dedicated to you, it will go to you after my death. But I know that this is what you want. Your family members, your siblings, your cousins know that this is yours and you save so much fighting on the back end, just having those conversations, jotting it down on a list or literally just walking around and discussing with your family members about tangible items, because it's surprising how important those things are to people.
16:12 - 16:21
You just reminded how much I miss my Cookie Monster cookie jar. You know, I love this idea of harmony planning. I'll throw it to both of you.
16:21 - 16:41
This is a tough process and I'm sure we can all kind of recite a recall the tensions that this created. But talk a little bit about the other side, like how good is this for the psychology of a person and the family? I talk a little bit more about this harmony that can be produced through planning Lonnell.
16:41 - 17:08
Yes. I'll give you two brief stories. One client that I had, unfortunately passed away, but he [...] X amount of dollars in wealth through real estate, a golf course. And he was just doing really well. But as he got older, unfortunately, dementia kicked in. But his family, when he was in a great mental state, had sat down and very clearly laid out specifically every single step of what the patriarch wanted to take place.
17:08 - 17:43
I mean, from cars to dollars to legacy to foundation giving to certain charities upon his passing, it was all seamless and it was scary how well the family came together and was just on top of it. And really everyone was able to focus on the grieving process and not on the grief process. Right. Grieving in the sense of I can mourn the death of this individual, but the grief and the tension that's involved with the families themselves was able to be eradicated. So that's one harmonious experience.
17:43 - 18:10
But on the flip side of that, I had a client experience where, I kid you not, the family, The siblings at that time had not spoken to each other for twenty years, twenty years because someone wanted to inherit thought they should inherit their father's pity collection. They thought this is worth millions of dollars because there was some really unique pennies and coins and that's what they fought.
18:10 - 18:48
And I mean, in fisticuffs, but also verbally through the legal system. And finally got them a place where we're actually able to figure out the value of the penny collection. I kid you not, it was only worth a little bit over one hundred dollars. We're talking about 20 years of fighting where there was no harmony, right, because there was no plan, and the dad never told them that the penny collection was just a hobby, versus [...] the NASDAQ. They hated each other for something that was worth a hundred dollars. But that's where that conversation, that's where documents, that's where that harmonious sense of ethical value can be added when you do things the right way. Tiffany?
18:49 - 19:09
Yeah, I mean, I hate to hear that, but like you said, it can be avoided. And we talk about this often with clients. In my initial meetings, I ask, tell me about your families. Do they get along? Do your kids get along? What are their philosophies around wealth? And how does that differ from your philosophy around wealth? And how can we plan around that?
19:09 - 19:50
I tell clients this, too, is that I can pretty much draft anything. As long as it's legal, I can draft it. So let's draft ways to provide guardrails and ways to avoid complications after you're gone, because grief is real and it causes a lot of complications. It adds to any issues that may have occurred before the death, it exacerbates things. So it's really just planning in a way that you can keep the harmony when you're gone or if you're incapacitated, or any of the above. So there's ways and methods to plan for harmony and to plan for not having litigation after your death.
19:51 - 20:06
When you think about some of the commonalities that exist in the plans you helped develop, regardless of where you are on the wealth spectrum, are there a handful of guardrails and guidelines to consider?
20:06 - 20:31
I think the biggest ones are being very detailed about use of assets.. So let's say, for example, you have a family home that you want to stay in the family and you can say, you know what, I've got three kids. I want them to have the family house. And that could be your multimillion dollar vacation house or just your one hundred thousand dollars family house.
20:32 - 21:00
And then my next question would be, regardless of the value is, well, let's discuss that more. How are we going to make sure that we keep the harmony? Who can use it when? You know, let's put in some limitations around use. What if someone wants to sell it? Can the others have a first right of refusal to buy it? Is there a baseline value that you're willing to sell it at? Let's just go through all of the permutations of what could happen with this family home.
21:01 - 21:45
Fifty years from now, when you've got three kids and then you've got ten grandkids who all want to use this house on Fourth of July, what happens then? Also putting up guardrails around sale of assets like that. So I know you want to keep the family house, but let's say the neighborhood runs down at some point and it needs to be sold. How do you feel about it then? Or what if there's something else that's ten times better that everybody wants instead of this house? Are you willing to let them sell it to get something that's like-kind? So just going through all of the possibilities and making sure that we are detailed enough in the documents that we don't have an issue where kids are fighting over something that you didn't think about when you were planning. Lonnell, same question for you, but more through the lens of the wealth management side.
21:45 - 22:03
Some of the conversations Tiffany has with her clients kind of factor in or influence even how we think about managing assets over the short term and long term and who we bring to the table. So what are some of those guardrails and guidelines that you think are kind of table stakes of for management side?
22:03 - 22:47
Yeah, that's a great question. I think it starts for me with understanding what's important. That's where those priority cards come on. I think having conversations around philanthropy, because a lot of people who accumulate wealth really do believe in giving back, so let's identify first and foremost what this [...] means to you. Where do those dollars really need to go? What type of impact do you want to have? And then beyond that, as we dive deeper into that, is it impact [...]? Because right now ESG is just really important to a lot of our clients. Thinking about diversity, equity and inclusion, how important that should play a role in the investments that you have that are being put out there. I think also something around an ethical will, that's something that is becoming more and more popular, something that I think is really important for people to think about.
22:47 - 23:25
An ethical will go a little bit deeper into the ethics, the values, the core values of the family. So something as generic as I want my family to be a family of humility, honesty and honor. But it could also be defined as how we view giving back, how we view investing, how we view real estate or how we view a blended family, because even that is something that is significant. Nowadays we see more blended families. And so how do we manage the children from the second marriage? How do we manage the. Older patriarch and the new younger wife. These are these are things that we have to talk to walk through.
23:26 - 23:49
Then how does that inform our investment strategy? Because that is how we generate income for the future. That might be how we're funding trusts for the future. That might be the assets or the dollars that your children's children might be living on. And so are we doing things in a way as the wealth creator generator, are we doing things in a way that aligns with the way you view life, and something that we can continue to pass out.
23:49 - 24:42
I like the fact that you brought into play the investing conversation. So there's a number of times ESG is more of a lifestyle than a fad.. And we certainly see that people are more responsible in how they dictate how their lives are remembered. But now there's an opportunity to reflect that in your portfolio, whether you have interest in impacting, affecting climate change, what boards and companies look like, and even kind of address the disparities in communities of color. When you just really think about this whole idea of legacy, it's typically legacy for your family, causes, and communities. And we really work with clients to ensure that they can have this kind of trickle-down effect, that the things that you find important to your family should factor into your estate plan, but can also factor into how you think about portfolio and asset allocation. So I appreciate you bringing that up.
24:42 - 25:26
I will say one thing that's really interesting. So my wife, she runs the digital and adaptive learning strategy for a really prominent billionaire family in the US. And when COVID hit, which we all have somehow, some way been impacted through the COVID experience, which was extremely challenging. We all work from home. You know, I have four kids who were homeschooled at that time, and I saw over thirty-five people close to me pass away. Thirty-five people died of COVID. And so my wife, when we all kind of came home and had to learn from home and teach our students from home, her job kind of blew up because her whole responsibility was [...] equity on the digital learning platform, now that everyone's learning digitally.
25:26 - 26:21
And how do we do this in a way that someone at the tribal college versus someone living in the inner city might be able to learn on the same level, someone living in Buckhead or Beverly Hills. And having these conversations with her, thinking about diversity, equity and inclusion, we saw this influx of dollars from minority families coming into the foundation because people were able to see like, wow, there is such a disparity between those who have Wi-Fi, who have top-tier cable, who have laptops and printers, and who can afford a nanny to step in and possibly help them walk through their Zoom class versus mom and dad who have full-time jobs, who are trying to make through Zoom calls with their four-year-old, grabs them on the leg, saying, I want cookies, which happened in my house all the time. We saw this that this came from minority families and or under-represented families because we see it's important.
26:21 - 26:51
So that goes back to that ESG conversation, now thinking about responsibility. Nowadays, it's more than just, I don't want guns or tobacco or gambling in my portfolio. Like, no, I want to specifically target something that's going to make a difference in the world. I want it to go to this community, on this block, for this type of people, or broadly to the world. So I think that's just... that's important to list up. Really important, thanks for sharing that.
26:51 - 27:10
Let's wrap up with a couple of takeaways and call actions. And I will simply say, whether you've got five grand or five million Tiffany, what are some of the specifics? What are some of the things we can encourage some of our listeners to do? Hopefully they are inspired by this conversation to really take a closer look at this getting their affairs in order.
27:10 - 27:53
Absolutely. I'd say the first thing is realizing that planning is more than just a will. So think about some of the other documents or mechanisms or things that you can be doing to get your affairs in order. Meet with an attorney if you need to, meet with your advisors, if you need to. They are educated in these things and can kind of really point you in the right direction. Second is involving your family in your estate plan, making sure that the people that you are naming to be fiduciaries or agents know what's going on, that they want to even play in that role. It's a big ask and it's a big responsibility. So making sure that you're involving them in the decision making process on the front end is also really important.
27:53 - 28:42
And also just thinking about, we've talked about this with clients too, almost pretending like you're going to die. And let's bring everybody in the room and let's kill someone off, theoretically, and let's walk through every single step of the process, because the last thing you want is for something catastrophic to happen to you, and then your family has no idea. They have no idea where things are. Even what vendors you use. Do you use AT&T or Verizon for your cell phone? I have no clue, so little things like that, where are your passwords? Where do you keep your important documents, the little things that are smaller and more detailed than your larger comprehensive estate plan, but make all the difference in that estate plan and walking through all of that with your family, making sure that they are armed and ready to step in if something happens to you.
28:42 - 29:30
Lonnell. What about you? So let's see say. I would No. One, I'll tell everyone again, if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. So it's about having the conversation, finding an adviser like Tiffany. I encourage everybody to talk to Tiffany, because she is amazing. Some type of attorney that you can lean on who can really kind of guide you through this process. This is not a LegalZoom process. You need to have a real conversation with people who can really guide you because there are things that you can do to help prevent some type of taxation. Right. There are things that you can do that can kind of help prevent infighting within the family. So that's something to think about. Some, I think, key things up today. You just want to make sure that everything is up to date in the place where it can be felt like Tiffany that it's going to be really key, I think, really thinking about the future and what you're willing to fund.
29:31 - 30:03
Right. That's really important. Today, you may say, I want my children to not have to work. I'm going to fund their entire lifestyle, and I just want them to have a good time. But let's say 20 years past, you say, you know, I think I want that to be different. I don't want them to be able to do whatever they want. I want them to go to work for their money. So I'm going to only give them X amount of dollars. Or maybe I'm only going to go to have their money refunded for medical expenses, education and maybe a small amount for a vacation. All right. Things change!
30:03 - 30:34
So you want to be up to date. I think, lastly, the most important thing of all of this is you need to speak to an adviser. You need to speak to a financial adviser who can be a partner to your other advisers, from your accountant to your attorneys to your business partners, your children, who can sit at the table from an unbiased perspective, who can give you some insight from investment perspective, from an income perspective, from a retirement perspective, and really kind of pull the team together and have a cohesive strategy that can be passed down from generation to generation.
30:34 - 31:05
I tell people all the time, I want to be at your children's bar mitzvah. I want to be at the cookout, the [...] cookout. If the Lord says it's time, if I can make it to your funeral, I'll be there, too. Because I want to be a part of your family. I want... one of my clients had a baby and I was one of the first people he called. That's what I want, Right, because a lot of individuals aren't necessarily fearful of paying bills or writing checks. So that's not something they're going to be concerned about. But they will be concerned about the things that matter the most.
31:05 - 31:21
And that's the part I agree with Lonnell completely. I think that makes us even better advisers. How well we know the clients that we serve, the better I know you, the better it is I can serve you. I want to be part of the family. I want... You know, I had so many of my clients at my own wedding. I got to tell you about.
31:23 - 32:07
I think the process doesn't become daunting if you have the advice. You know, my ask is, don't procrastinate. So look, it's July and it's the middle of the year. Treat this as a mid-year check-in. Really focus on how to get your affairs in order. Think about the people you need to bring into your circle to have these courageous conversations with your immediate family and your extended family and really just get ahead of this. I think the time you put in today will be well spent and it will help eliminate many of the challenges that you can run into tomorrow. Guys, I wanna thank you for sharing your passion, your experience and your words of wisdom. And thank you for all you do for a lot of people we care about the most.
32:08 - 32:26
So I hope you enjoyed today's episode. We love to hear from you. So please e-mail your thoughts, questions, or any feedback to diversemarkets@Bernstein.com. Please be sure to share, subscribe, and rate us on Apple Podcasts or anywhere you listen to podcasts, and definitely check us out on Twitter at BernsteinPWM.
- James Thompson
- SVP—Head of Diverse Markets Strategy