A New Mosaic in Sports and Entertainment

00:09 - 00:15

Hey, everyone, welcome to the Big Stage podcast, where we talk to athletes, artists, and entertainers of all kinds about their lives.

00:15 - 00:45

I'm your host, Adam Sansiveri, Bernstein managing director and the co-head of Sports and Entertainment. Today I'm excited to welcome you to a very special episode of The Big Stage, where you'll have an opportunity to listen to multiple leaders discuss the future of sports and entertainment during COVID and the racial uprisings of 2020. The discussion is insightful, optimistic, and informative. I hope you'll enjoy. On behalf of all my colleagues at Bernstein, we want to thank you for joining us today to discuss the future of entertainment and sports.

00:46 - 01:11

My name's Adam Sansiveri, and with me today to help moderate this conversation is my colleague, friend, director in our Wealth Strategies Group and fellow co-head of Sports and Entertainment, Stacy Jacobson. Hi, everyone. Thanks, Adam. Now, through the pandemic, we've been doing deep research across sports, entertainment, and media industries as we make investment decisions on behalf of our clients. But today, we're not talking about investments.

01:11 - 01:31

Instead, we're joined by three industry leaders who are here to help us answer some of your questions and provide insight into what the future of sports and entertainment may look like. Now, as a reminder, we will be taking questions throughout the webinar. So go ahead and use that Q&A button on your screen and we'll get to as many as we possibly can. Thanks, Stacey.

01:32 - 01:58

So this is not the first crisis we've all seen, but it is different in so many ways. I think it is fair to say that no other crisis before this one has been so disruptive to sports and entertainment from the canceling of the NBA season, the Olympics, Broadway theater, all the live concerts into the acceleration of digital trends that are in content and gaming, et cetera, 2020 will be a year that has changed the landscape forever.

01:58 - 02:08

So before we get into the first question, what I'd like to do real quick with our panelists is take one minute each or real briefly, just explain your role and responsibilities with your organization.

02:09 - 02:26

Ahmad, can we start with you? Sure, happy to. First, thanks to everybody, Adam and everybody else on the team for having us and doing this is great. It's great to have a chance to think about these topics and hear from other people on these topics. So thanks again for having us.

02:27 - 02:59

My name is Ahmad Nassar, the chief executive officer at One Team Partners, which is a relatively new company, started January 1st of this year. So what a year to launch what is effectively a startup in the sports business. We represent all of professional athletes in football, baseball, men's and women's soccer, rugby and women's basketball for now. And really our whole vision is to transform and elevate the way all athletes participate in business.

02:59 - 03:23

And the way we do that is we're a one of a kind sports company that unleashes their collective power as athletes to drive business with the business partners that we work with. And the way we do that is we have business lines that consist of licensing, athlete marketing, media, and investment. And what that means in particular is we license companies like Steeves Electronic Arts to make video games.

03:24 - 03:54

We work with trading card manufacturers to produce trading cards. We work with other companies to create apparel and merchandise that features the likenesses of the athletes that we represent. We do sponsorship and appearances and digital marketing. And then we also work in media with scripted and unscripted programming, branded content, e-sports, which is something we will touch on. And then lastly, we do investing in the form of a venture fund that we launched earlier this year and then investing in and around youth sports and other opportunistic categories.

03:54 - 04:08

So I'll stop there. Right. Thanks, Ahmad. We'll dig into a lot of that. Lowell, how about you? Yeah. Thanks again for having us. This is going to be a very... I'm interested in learning as much as I am in blabbing. But let me blab a little bit.

04:08 - 04:41

I'm the executive director of the Writers Guild of America East. We're a union. We represent many thousands of writers in entertainment and news, ranging from late night comedy variety shows to sitcoms to episodic dramas to feature films. We have expanded a lot recently into podcasts, both scripted and unscripted. We do a tremendous amount of streaming video and demand work, which is sort of the new television. I know we're going to have some fun talking about that in a bit.

04:41 - 04:57

We also represent a lot of news writers, both traditional broadcast news writers, for example, CBS and ABC News, and also digital like Vox and Vice and Huff Post. So we cover a wide space in both the entertainment and the news part of the business.

04:57 - 05:29

And we're organizing like crazy and growing like crazy. We're based in New York, our sister union, Writers Guild of America West, we work very closely with. To negotiate the main collective bargaining agreements, in fact, we just finished one with the main studios, that's up for ratification as we speak, so we have partnerships bicoastally and trying industrially. And my job is to run the union. I negotiate contracts. I do the organizing. I make sure that people show up for work on time or show up on Zoom on time lately.

05:30 - 05:36

But that's, that's my role. Great. Thanks a lot. Appreciate you being here, Steve. Hello everyone.

05:36 - 05:47

My name is Steve Schnur and I've been in Electronic Arts for 18 years now. For those of you that may not know what EA is, I guarantee you your kids do know what it is.

05:47 - 05:55

However, gaming has been a major force in entertainment for decades now and over multiple generations.

05:55 - 06:27

Certainly people probably know EA Sports. But also, let's not forget Star Wars and Sims and Battlefield and Battlefront and Mass Effect and all the other amazing titles that we have. Since this particular forum is focused on sports and entertainment, I imagine most of the conversation when it comes to me will be about Madden Football and FIFA and NHL and other... other ways to, well, other ways that a lot of people have been playing out sports over the last couple of months, right?

06:27 - 06:53

And I think that's what's so exciting about it, is that sports to one degree have had challenges. I myself living in Nashville, I can't imagine personally going and sitting with fifty thousand people in this stadium this year. It will kill me to not be in the stadium. And I'm also a season ticket holder of LAFC and Nashville SC. And yet this year will be a year that I can't sit in a stadium.

06:54 - 07:28

And yet what an amazing way for people to be involved in sports, whether it's players versus players or gamers versus gamers versus gamers. So I'll close this little portion up by saying it's... I've been fortunately around to see the gaming industry continue to evolve. This isn't a sudden overnight success that suddenly everybody paid attention to, once Fortnite put in Travis Scott a couple of weeks ago or a couple of months ago. This is evolving into a major, major force in entertainment, bigger than the music industry and the film industry combined. So happy to be here.

07:29 - 07:29

Thanks, Steve.

07:29 - 08:04

Well, before we get started, I just want to say real quick, Steve, tell our audience, what are you doing right now? Can you, can you show them? You know, I've been in it since we've been covered in isolation, so to speak. I've yet to see somebody do this, but we've seen newscasters' homes. But yes, right now, to spin around, we are live from Nashville, where I am, to Abbey Road Studios in London recording a project. I cannot tell you what the project is yet, but it's one of the biggest composers in the world. And there's about 40, 50 musicians in the room. Very well spread apart.

08:05 - 08:39

An incredible... I do have a turn down. I want to turn it up so badly. And lo and behold, that union wouldn't like it. I know that It's OK. We'll work it out. That stream then, and I need to pay attention to that. That's amazing. Well, that... that's an amazing example of some of the incredible work and things that are... that are still happening in the entertainment space through this crisis. So let's dive right in. And Ahmad, I want to start with you, because you said something very interesting to me recently, and it was something around,

08:39 - 09:07

if the world doesn't end from all of this, what might we look back and say, I wish I would have or would have not done during this time? And I think it's such a good question. So in hopes of not having any regrets, what are you thinking about right now? Well, look, the co-chairman of my board asked us that and asked it rather pointedly, so there's nothing like a good crisis that you don't want to let go to waste, right? To borrow a political phrase.

09:07 - 09:40

And I think what we're really looking for are the trends that may start now or have been accelerated now because of the pandemic that are here to stay. And so there's a whole bunch of stuff that maybe in five years or 10 years, hopefully we look back on and it's sort of a, do you remember that crazy time period in 2020, and the things that went on? Then there are going to be a whole bunch of other things that, you know, if we are being completely honest, were probably already happening in 2018 and 2019 but really hit.

09:40 - 10:01

And I think Steve brought up e-sports. Those things are not new, but what this current event has done is accelerate a lot of the trends. And so what we're trying to do as a business is re-prioritize and shuffle the deck and say, OK, what were some things that maybe we were looking at doing that we're not going to do anymore?

10:02 - 10:09

That's important. And there's some obvious things that are like ticketing in hospitality, at least in the in the moment. Right, because there's not those things going on.

10:09 - 10:42

The events aren't happening the way they usually do, but everybody's hopeful that they will get back to that. But then more interestingly on the trends that are being accelerated, that are here to stay, what can we do there? And e-sports definitely leads the way, content more generally, at least non-gaming content, meaning non-live sports events content is a really important area. Video gaming, digital, all of the console-based games, digital mobile games, those are all areas that we were already operating in.

10:42 - 11:11

But I think we've really decided to double down because of the opportunity that's just staring us in the face. And I'll go ahead and direct one towards you. In your intro, you had named off all the types of members and writers that were in your group. And to me it was evidence of the diversity. So I was wondering, what do you think would be the biggest disruption for some of the writers that you're working with? Well, it's very interesting. Right now, our members are all working.

11:11 - 11:26

The entertainment industry is shut down almost 100 percent. The part of it that's not 100 percent is writers. They're still creating series. They're still creating future films, are still creating podcasts. They're still, of course, reporting the news, writing the news, producing the news.

11:26 - 11:45

But I can't imagine that's going to last that much longer if, in fact, production on soundstages and on location doesn't re-open in the next couple of months, I think that they will find themselves in the same boat as all the camera people and actors and audio people and so forth. And that is scrambling to try to figure out how to make ends meet.

11:45 - 12:17

I would say the long-run impact is going to be a little bit hard to predict because we know that the demand for entertainment content is increasing. The more the people work at home, the more the people are desperate for something to do, that doesn't involve going into Nissan Stadium, for example, the more the people want to watch comedies and dramas and so forth. The problem is we can't produce it. It's not like the car business where nobody wants to buy a car. Everybody wants to buy a TV show. We just our members haven't been able to get it actually shot and put on screen for people.

12:17 - 12:34

I think that's going to be a big challenge if we don't figure out that production side pretty soon. And honestly, we haven't figured it out. There isn't any timetable under which people can say, oh, yeah, we're going to go back into the studio in six weeks or even three months. That's going to be the biggest disruption.

12:34 - 13:07

I think a smaller disruption is, one kind of production you can do is podcasting because you can do it the way we are doing this. You could do it with a set of headphones and a microphone and a laptop computer. So it may well be that we, when we look back at this period, 12 months from now, we're going to say, wow, that was when everyone switched over to podcasting. And everyone decided that the best way to kill a few hours of time is to put the earphones in and listen to a really compelling, scary drama that's made for the ear and not for the eye. That that may be sort of the Black Swan event in the entertainment industry.

13:08 - 13:31

I may have to try that because I've definitely run out of good quality content on Netflix, so... And there's a lot of it, Adam, so you must be watching a lot. They're really good. They've been great about keeping it. I mean, every time I think I'm done with the content on Netflix, there's something spectacular pops up. So it's pretty impressive, you know, how much content is. I have yet to be bored.

13:31 - 13:43

And I was bored after Ozark ended. Steve, I'll direct the same type of questions towards you. You gave us a little bit of a glimpse about how your musicians are working on the project you're on right now.

13:43 - 14:16

But what do you think would be the biggest disruption in your world in 2020? Well, I hesitate to answer that as you've presented it to me, because I think we plowed through any disruption in quite an impressive way, I think probably my organization, probably all the others, I would imagine, were worried initially how you take a 10,000+ person workforce who's making digital entertainment, which usually means you have computer engineers, you have software engineer people.

14:16 - 14:20

You've got people creatively hovering together and doing it separately.

14:20 - 14:42

And lo and behold, the product that you'll play this fall, Madden, FIFA, etc., you know, I'll give you an example. Adam and I spoke a couple of weeks ago about the score. I run music, so I'm not going to sit there and profess to try to know about the software engineering behind the scenes. But the entire score of Madden football this year was recorded one instrument at a time.

14:43 - 15:08

So we really stepped up and did it new, unique ways. We were forced and worried, frankly, initially. But I think what this has become is quite an incredible learning process on how we can create amazing digital entertainment individually across the globe. I think it also is going to create, frankly, amazing employment opportunities in the future.

15:08 - 15:18

We don't have to worry about, well, there is somebody in Los Angeles, I have to have somebody in Los Angeles. Right now, I can hire someone, anybody, anywhere in the world and know that that person will be integrated into what we do creatively every minute.

15:18 - 15:52

So everything we're doing is, for the most part, you know, on time. There's going to be great games coming this year. And I think the one thing that happened... just to go back a second here, I mentioned before about the Travis Scott Fortnite experience. Marshmallow did it previously in Fortnite pre-Covid, before Covid, B.C., we'll call it, right. And so it wasn't because of Covid that there is great in-game virtual experiences and entertainment.

15:52 - 16:07

And what this does is, as Ahmad just mentioned, it sort of propels us at lightning speed to jump into something that we already knew was there, we already knew was possible. And a lot of us adults are suddenly paying attention to, oh, my God, there's a concert we can go to in a game.

16:07 - 16:34

But the truth is, next generation already expects that. They're already attending those things. So while live music entertainment horrifically is just in a terrible place, and we know that they probably won't be back and up and running well into 2021, we know that the alternatives of having in-game virtual performances, experiences are already there, but we don't need to retrain the next generation to show up.

16:35 - 17:03

They've already been attending. So that's one of the great stories we run on Entertainment and Sports podcast at Bernstein that Stacey and I oversee. And we interviewed Travis Scott's manager. And the whole story behind that is wonderful. So I think that's a great example, Steve. So we're getting a lot of really great questions coming in and we're going to try to sprinkle them in as we go and get to as many as we can. But this is a really fun one and it goes to what Lowell was just saying. So I want to throw it back to you, Lowell, real quick.

17:04 - 17:34

Are writers having to adjust the way they're writing their scenes for film and TV, with fewer actors, less extras, and things like that? Yeah, and the... what's the word for it? The intimate scenes are a real challenge. Yes, actually, they are. They're getting.... writers hate to get notes from the shoots. I don't think that character should say that in that scene. I don't think... The notes that they're getting from the shoots now are, cut out all the extras.

17:34 - 17:38

Cut the number of people in the chain in half and make it work dramatically.

17:38 - 18:11

That's a tough note to get, but yes, it is happening, and it makes sense for now because even when we start to resume production, it's not going to be the kind of all hands on deck productions that we're used to. So there are even some notes that go so far as to say, try to make your dramas reflect pandemic type concerns. Not, obviously, not every show is going to be pandemic, like the movie, but concerns about public gathering, concerns about how the government responds or doesn't respond to different, different crises.

18:11 - 18:29

So we're seeing drama change in real time. And, of course, comedy, forget it. It's completely all over it. So, yeah, it's all changing. That's fascinating. I can imagine Game of Thrones with a global plague or half the... half the armies... winter, it's winter. Yeah, exactly.

18:29 - 18:48

Ahmad, I'm going to come back to you. So many of the players have been vocal about the NFL Covid response and the lack of a coherent plan. You knew this question was coming. What do you think needs to happen for a successful safe season to occur? Well, first, nothing motivates people like a deadline, right? A real deadline.

18:48 - 19:20

So you're seeing this week was supposed to be the week that players across the NFL, or at least for some teams, reported to camp and well, how are we going to have players reporting without knowing what some of those protocols look like? And so, lo and behold, the whole lot of stuff got figured out over the weekend and Monday. It's still in the process of being finalized. And you've seen even today some teams push back some of the reporting deadlines or at least the start of physical activity pending some of the testing.

19:20 - 19:53

So I think that's always really important. We saw that to a certain extent with baseball, right. Kind of also delay things. And look, I think there is a huge portion here of just everybody's trying to figure things out in real time. And what we thought a month ago is different than now. And I don't know that we've ever had that kind of group learning. And, of course, it's also become politicized, at least in this country. And so that-that's like an added layer of complexity, no matter what your political views are, right.

19:53 - 20:22

It just makes it harder. And so I think for the most part, people are trying to do what they can. But I think, you know, the other added layer of complexity, and different sports have different collective bargaining agreements, and I know we'll talk about that. That's his role. And one team is majority owned by unions, I should have mentioned that, by the Major League Baseball Players Association and the NFL Players Association, and others. And so and I spent 11 years of my career at the NFLPA. That dynamic is always going to factor into it, right? At least in sports.

20:22 - 20:51

What can we derive out of, again, never letting a crisis go to waste. And in the NFL context, I think they and the athletes there are the beneficiaries of having recently concluded a long-term CBA. I mean, a lot of this is completely un-contemplated in that document, but there's at least some certainty there. And I think, baseball, part of the reason they had a more difficult time, was tied to the fact that their CBA is up in less than two years.

20:51 - 21:01

And so it's hard to separate those things. I think all of that kind of factors in and it just makes this something that from a degree of complexity nobody's ever seen before. It makes sense.

21:01 - 21:06

Well, I know Steve and I are very excited for our Titans, so fingers crossed, right?

21:07 - 21:39

Steve, the gaming industry obviously has, like you mentioned, been a beneficiary of some success. It was more of a momentum move, as you mentioned, because the success was certainly already there. But do you feel like something has to happen for that success to continue after the stay-at-home orders are lifted, kids are back in school. We go back to the offices. Is there anything that needs to happen or is it, what's the plan there, you think? I don't think something needs to happen. I think that, again, as I mentioned before, this is an industry that's devolving.

21:40 - 22:12

This isn't an industry that's suddenly had to, other than the way we work, you know, we didn't suddenly have to shift the way we create content, or put out content, or convince people that they should do this instead of doing something else. I mean, it's pretty hard to find, you know, somebody between the ages of X and X. And the reason why I'm using X is because gaming has become this wide net with demographics. It's pretty hard to find someone particularly young, who doesn't think of gaming as a major, their major identity.

22:12 - 22:32

Listen, something those of us here over the age of 40 can relate to. You know, we all grew up where radio stations and bands, that was our identity. Those were the stickers we put in our cars. Those were the stickers we put in, those were the T-shirts we wore. From New York, it was about WNEW, that was who I was and identified.

22:33 - 23:04

But the truth is, that's changed, you know, my son is 20, early twenties and he identifies himself by the games he plays, and so we didn't have to suddenly shift and evolve and create something unique. Right now, what we have to do is move in the same direction we were moving to before, cloud gaming, make sure that everything, these are multiplayer environments, player choice, constantly, player first, and make sure that new content is constantly flowing.

23:04 - 23:20

And when we create events and virtual worlds, of course, they have to be smart. You just don't create an event just to create an event. The Travis Scott thing was smart. That doesn't mean 20 more people should do a cut and paste activity just like that. We have to constantly grow and evolve.

23:21 - 23:37

I think also it's become a space where sports players I mean, Ahmad would know this better than anyone, have used this real estate to suddenly engage with fans and engage with each other. And I don't think that should end. I don't think when the vaccine shows up, I don't think suddenly we should go,

23:37 - 24:05

OK, well, that was great. Let's go back to where we were. I think this is an incredible transitionary growth period personally for us as human beings, hopefully, and also as professionals in the entertainment industry. We're on a rocket ship right now and there's no turning back. And I think there's, anybody who remained stagnant or any company that remained stagnant and thinks that they're going to go back to the way it was is going to get left behind. You know, so I look at this as a great opportunity.

24:05 - 24:39

It's a horrible thing all of us are going through. But we're going to come out of this and we're going to come out of it better than ever in the movies, we're going to come out of it better than ever in sports, we're going to come out of it better than ever in games. And I think what we have to do is realize, as one of these guys said before, what was already happening. It's not like suddenly people are going to run back to cable television. You know, it's not like suddenly people are going to run, but maybe they're not going to run back and go to the movies as much. as we need to come up with different delivery systems, we need to acknowledge... I was so thrilled the month of April when I could suddenly watch all the films I want and say, OK, for twenty bucks you can watch.

24:39 - 25:13

I was all in at that point. That's what I've wanted for the longest time. I want to be able to see the next Batman movie at home if I want. So it's about choice. And this is one thing the gaming industry has always realized. It's about player choice. It's about, it's about the person who's watching the film, not, let them have a choice, how they want to consume their entertainment. So let's, let's shift now to the other epic pillar that has defined 2020. Real quick, I want to start with you, Ahmad, because the Black Lives Matter movement has swept our nation.

25:13 - 25:21

And I can't help but think about Colin Kaepernick, who took a stance for what he believed and essentially lost his career because of the NFL's stance.

25:22 - 25:56

There is some pushback regarding athletes promoting racial justice from the playing field or the court. Where do you stand on all this? I don't think it's hard to guess. I support the athletes using their voice. And listen, I mean, this is part and parcel of the entirety of our business, supporting the athletes and really the rights as employees and as labor to use and leverage their platforms, right? It's not something that's limited to sports for any reason, right? And I think that's and it's not limited to social justice.

25:56 - 26:07

It's something that carries through really to every aspect of business. And I think what we're seeing now hopefully is another trend that is accelerating.

26:07 - 26:37

Right. Colin Kaepernick started taking a knee several years ago and many folks who at the time didn't get it or didn't support it have rethought that stance since. And that's great. The reality is, though, as you mentioned in the top of the question, he has at least so far given up his career or given up his prime years in his career, even if he were to sign tomorrow, which I'm not sure that anyone is holding their breath for that to happen, which I think is a shame, whether you agree with him or not, right.

26:37 - 27:03

And I think what I would point out is I do hold out hope that when Muhammad Ali in the 60s took many of the stances that he took, he was not necessarily celebrated the way he was 30, 40 years later. And when you he passed away, people who weren't alive back then may have made the mistake of thinking that the man had essentially been a saint his entire life.

27:03 - 27:28

And the reality was he hadn't been perceived that way. And it took a while for people to catch up and to at least respect his viewpoints, even if he, even if they didn't agree with them. And so part of my hope is that the notion of shut up and dribble is always been around or whatever the sport-specific equivalent of that is, shut up and throw pass, shut up and shoot a bucket, and all of those things.

27:28 - 27:40

But I think time generally proves the people who think that wrong, and I think it usually vindicates the voice of the athlete, and I think we're seeing the same thing play out probably on a shorter time frame here.

27:40 - 27:58

What a great answer. Steven, and then Lowell, how has the Black Lives Matter movement impacted or progressed your industries? Steve, you want to start? I think we have been focused on equality for quite some time.

27:58 - 28:21

I think when you look at the different protagonists of FIFA in the journey a couple of years ago, Alex Hodges, or you look at the lead characters from the past and in games like The Sims, or you look at the women's national team being at FIFA for quite a few years and the list could go on, but the truth is that I've worked for this company for 18 years.

28:21 - 28:40

I've always felt that the values of this company really reflect my personal values as well. It's that our games look like the people that are playing them, you know, it's never been. Listen, we've got athletes on the field and they reflect something different than sometimes the people in the stands, particularly the suites.

28:40 - 28:59

And we, musically, I can tell you, I've always focused on the players and the next generation. So we've taken some incredible actions since this has all happened and occurred in the last couple of months through donations and through time spent in the way my company has reacted.

29:00 - 29:26

Volunteerism is very big. We're all volunteering on a regular basis to make sure that racial equality is firmly cemented in this country and in our space. Steve, I just want to say, because you and I had a great conversation a while back and on this topic, and it was sort of the systemic racism that has not allowed there to be a lot of black composer options. And that was an interesting point that you made.

29:27 - 29:55

It's important because, listen, you know, people ask me about female composers. They ask me about black composers. And right now, Chris Bowers, one of the most talented composers on the planet, who did a green book, won the Academy Award, did Madden last year, will be doing Madden this year. You know, Hilda Guðnadóttir, who I can't talk about, who just won the Oscar. I can't talk about the project, but the truth is that, you know, these are the next generation of great creative people.

29:56 - 30:11

But I don't think that, I think, sorry, I think, where this is really not giving opportunities is coming from earlier parts of people's lives. To be a composer, it's different than being an artist who picks up a guitar.

30:12 - 30:43

You need education. You need the opportunity to be able to learn how to compose, how to orchestrate, to write for sections of violins and sections of French horns. And I do believe that's an opportunity that people are not getting equally. And I think, you know, if the junior high school level, the high school level, the collegiate level, these that we need to really focus on ensuring the people who have creativity or the ability to grow and become masters in their craft have the opportunity for education.

30:43 - 31:08

And I think it's important for organizations to help people and to ensure that scholarships and opportunities are there. I think it's important for all of us to acknowledge the fact that, you know, I'll go back to something that's been around for years. This isn't a Covid or a result of what's going on now. You know, music in schools, music in schools is all but gone. It's our values.

31:08 - 31:22

We have to give people opportunities no matter what the color of their skin, no matter what their gender is. Can you imagine, with all of the amazing musicians in the world, all of the amazing potential musicians that just didn't get the opportunity?

31:23 - 31:57

I want to end with a lightning round question, see if each of you can answer this and maybe one or two sentences. Since we're at the top of the hour, what is the big trend that will define the landscape in your space when we look back five years from now, who wants to take that first? I will say I think what we are seeing is an enormous amount of disruption in power structures and in the composition of the workforce. One of the things we're facing and embracing at the Writers Guild is the fact that there are just a tremendous number of voices we've never heard before.

31:58 - 32:31

There is a changeover in generations, as Steve has been saying. There's a changeover in expectations about having your voice heard. As Ahmad has said. There's a changeover in audience expectations. I think that the sort of monolithic entertainment industry is going to wind up being much more of a mosaic, much with a lot more diversity of content and power structures than than we anticipate in ways that I don't even, I can't even map out. But I think it's going to be pretty cool. Thanks, Lowell. Ahmad? Yeah, I just pick up on something Lowell said there, the diversity of content. So in sports we've had to make do

32:31 - 32:55

with several months of no live sports, really for the first time ever. Not even World War II, I don't think at this level of disruption, I mean, there may have been different players playing, but there were, there were still alive sports going on on a local and national level. So I think that has created this avenue for other types of sports programming. And I think a lot of that is here to stay.

32:55 - 33:13

And it's just more content, more diversity of content for fans and viewers. And so that's the trend that I think five years from now, a lot of content formats in and around sports will trace the roots back to this time in terms of really taking hold. It may have been things that existed before, but really taking hold.

33:14 - 33:44

That's what I think we'll see. Fantastic. Steve, final word. Let's call it the big Covid takeaway, I guess. We're going through a reassessment right now. The reassessment and entertainment's place and frankly, the value in all of our lives. We have to rethink delivery systems and we have to rethink content. We're already in the future. I think it's fantastic. I think we're going to look back and what now seems very difficult, we're going to look back and in a couple of years be thankful we went through this to get us through the other side.

33:45 - 34:15

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